How to View and Handle Religious Issues

Reporter: Religious issues in contemporary China are drawing increasing attention from various quarters. What do you see as the main reasons for this? How should we view religious issues?

记者：当代中国的宗教问题已经越来越受到各方面的关注，您认为主要原因是什么？我们应当如何看待宗教问题？

Wang Zuo’an: To put it briefly, the number of religious believers is growing, complex situations have emerged in the religious sphere, and religion’s influence in social life has expanded, all of which require us to respond correctly and handle properly. At the same time, behind the phenomenon of religious development, people have begun to reflect on the question of belief among the Chinese people. This is a deeper issue that will have far-reaching implications for China’s future development and demands close attention and thorough consideration.

王作安：简要地说，信教人数不断增长，宗教领域出现了一些复杂情况，宗教在社会生活中的影响有所扩大，需要我们正确应对，妥善处理。同时，由宗教发展这一现象，人们开始思考中国人的信仰问题，这是更为深层的一个问题，对未来中国的发展有着深远影响，需要引起高度关注，深入思考。

In recent years, people’s views on religion have undergone considerable change. Overall, people’s perceptions of religion have become more objective and rational; religion is no longer seen as entirely negative and backward. At the same time, differing views have emerged, and understanding has become more diverse. In my view, when looking at religious issues, we should not proceed solely from texts and dogmas. We must adopt an attitude of seeking truth from facts and observe and reflect on religion within the context of China’s economic and social development and transformation. Currently, we need to focus on clarifying three questions: How should we view the growth in the number of religious believers? How should we view the social role of religion? How should we view the broad masses of religious believers?

这些年来，人们对宗教的看法发生了比较大的变化。总体上看，人们对宗教的看法更加客观和理性，不再把宗教看成完全是消极落后的现象，同时也出现了一些不同看法，认识趋于多元。我认为，看待宗教问题不能只从本本出发，要本着实事求是的态度，把宗教放到我国经济社会发展变化中来观察和思考。当前我们要重点搞清三个问题：如何看待信教人数的增长？如何看待宗教社会作用？如何看待广大信教群众？

Reporter: It is often said that the number of religious believers in China is growing. How many religious believers are there in China today?

记者：总是说我国信教的人数在增长，目前我国信教的人到底有多少？

Wang Zuo’an: We have long stated that there are over 100 million religious believers in China. Where does this figure come from? It can be said to be the result of a combination of statistics and estimates. Some religions are easier to count, while others are not. Catholicism, Protestantism, and Islam have strict conversion rituals and are easier to count. Currently, there are 5.5 million Catholics, 23 million Protestants, and 21 million Muslims, totaling about 50 million. Buddhism and Taoism are traditional Chinese religions; formally converted believers are easier to count, but lay believers, lacking a unified standard, are very difficult to count and can only be estimated. This yields the figure of over 100 million. I believe the actual number of religious believers in China is larger than this figure. I hope we can ascertain the true number as soon as possible. This is not only necessary for doing a good job in religious work but also meaningful for a more comprehensive understanding of China’s national conditions.

王作安：我们一直讲我国有一亿多人信教，这个数字是哪里来的呢？可以说是统计加估计的结果。因为有的宗教好统计，有的宗教不太好统计。天主教、基督教和伊斯兰教有严格的入教仪式，好统计一些，现有天主教信徒550万，基督教信徒2300万，伊斯兰教信徒2100万，加起来5000万左右。佛教、道教是中国的传统宗教，正式皈依的信徒好统计，但在家信仰的，由于没有一个统一标准，很难统计，只能估计一下，这样就得出一个一亿多人的结论。我认为我国实际信教人数比这个数字要大，希望能尽早摸清底数，这不仅是做好宗教工作的需要，而且对更加全面地了解我国国情也很有意义。

Reporter: Over 100 million is indeed no small number. As the director of the State Administration for Religious Affairs, how do you view this phenomenon of growth in the number of religious believers in China?

记者：一亿多的确不是个小数目。作为国家宗教局局长，您如何看待我国信教人数增长这种现象？

Wang Zuo’an: Some say the Religious Affairs Bureau is a bureau for religious development, and that the increase in believers in recent years is the bureau’s doing. To be honest, this overestimates the Religious Affairs Bureau; it does not have that capability. The relatively rapid growth in the number of religious believers in China at the present stage has complex causes. There is recovery growth after the end of the Cultural Revolution [1]1 The Cultural Revolution (1966–1976) was a mass political movement launched by Mao Zedong, during which religious activities were severely suppressed and many religious sites were destroyed., as well as the influence of foreign countries under open conditions. The main reason, I believe, is the profound social transformation—social stratification, interest differentiation, and the diversification of people’s value orientations—which has given religion new room for development. Although the people’s material and cultural living standards are generally improving, competition in real life is becoming increasingly fierce, and uncertainty is growing. Whether one is destitute or has made a fortune, there is a sense of insecurity, and either may turn to religion.

王作安：有人说宗教局是宗教发展局，这些年信教的人多了是宗教局搞的。说实话，这是高看了宗教局，宗教局还没那个本事。我国现阶段信教人数出现较快增长，原因很复杂。有“文革”结束后的恢复性增长，也有开放条件下国外的影响，最主要的原因，我认为是社会发生深刻变革，社会分层，利益分化，人们的价值取向趋于多元，宗教由此获得新的发展空间。尽管总体来说人民物质文化水平在提高，但现实生活中的竞争越来越激烈，不确定性增加，不管是家徒四壁的，还是发了大财的，都有不安全感，都可能信教。

Despite the phenomenon of relatively rapid growth in the number of believers, there are two basic judgments: First, it is basically orderly. On this point, a comparison can be made with the Soviet Union. After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, there was a major religious rebound; today, the influence of the Russian Orthodox Church is very great, and some Central Asian countries rapidly became Islamized. China has not experienced such a situation. Second, it is basically stable. Here too, there is a comparison. In some countries and regions today, religious contradictions are prominent, and conflicts and turmoil involving religion occur one after another. In our country, however, religion is basically stable, and there are no major problems affecting the overall situation. One could even compare with Europe and America, where cultural and religious conflicts brought by immigration are deepening, while in China, the various religions coexist harmoniously, which is especially commendable.

尽管出现了信教人数较快增长的现象，但有两个基本判断：一是基本有序，这一点可以与苏联比较。苏联解体后，出现宗教大反弹，现在俄罗斯的东正教影响很大，中亚一些国家迅速伊斯兰化，我国没有出现这样的情况。二是基本稳定，这一点也有比较。现在一些国家和地区宗教矛盾突出，涉及宗教的冲突和动荡此起彼伏，而我们国家，宗教基本上是稳定的，没有出现影响大局的大问题。甚至可以与欧美比较，那里移民带来的文化、宗教冲突日益深刻，而我国各宗教和谐相处，尤其显得难能可贵。

It now appears that religious issues are not as simple as we once thought. We once believed that after entering socialist society, as the people’s material and cultural living standards improved, religious consciousness would quickly fade. What has happened now? More than 60 years have passed since the founding of New China, and more than 30 years since reform and opening up. The people’s material life has become richer, and education levels have risen, yet religious consciousness has not faded; on the contrary, it has shown a revival. In the western minority regions with deeper religious traditions, religious consciousness is rising; in the more prosperous southeastern coastal areas, the number of religious believers has also grown relatively rapidly.

现在看来，宗教问题不是我们原先认为的那么简单。我们曾经认为，进入社会主义社会后，随着人民群众物质文化生活水平的提高，宗教意识很快就会淡化。现在怎么样了呢？新中国成立60多年了，改革开放也30多年了，老百姓物质生活丰富了，教育水平提高了，宗教意识非但没有淡化，反而出现了复兴的现象。宗教传统比较深厚的西部少数民族地区，宗教意识在抬头，先富起来的东南沿海地区，宗教信徒也有较快增长。

In short, in socialist society, religion still has deep roots for its existence. It will not only exist for a long time but may also develop in certain periods. We cannot artificially reduce the number of religious believers; this is impossible to achieve and would create problems. But neither should we develop religion. In some places, the approach of “religion sets the stage, the economy performs the play” artificially expands religion’s influence. We must adopt a scientific attitude toward religion, formulate correct policies to handle religious issues, and through effective management and guidance, promote normal and orderly religious activities and guide religion to adapt to socialist society.

总之，在社会主义社会，宗教还有其存在的深刻根源，不仅会长期存在，在一定时期还可能会有发展。我们不能人为地去把信教人数降下来，这是做不到的，还会弄出问题来。但也不要去发展宗教，有些地方搞“宗教搭台、经济唱戏”，人为地扩大宗教影响。我们要以科学的态度看待宗教，制定正确的政策处理宗教问题，通过有效的管理和引导，促进宗教活动正常有序，引导宗教与社会主义社会相适应。

Reporter: It seems that on the issue of viewing the growth in the number of believers, many of us still have misunderstandings. Now, please discuss the second point: How should we view the social role of religion?

记者：看来在看待信教人数增长这个问题上，我们不少人还存在着认识的误区。现在请您谈谈第二点，即我们该如何看待宗教的社会作用？

Wang Zuo’an: The Marxist view of religion holds that the social role of religion has a dual character: it has both a positive side and a negative side, and it is influenced by complex domestic and international factors. The positive side refers to religion’s role in maintaining social stability and promoting social harmony; the negative side refers to the possibility that religion may be used to undermine social stability and harmony. Fundamentally, all religions advocate peace, goodwill, and harmony. If this is properly guided, utilized, and brought into play, religion can release positive energy and play a positive role in society. However, influenced by various complex factors, religion can also become a trigger for turmoil and confrontation. Observing the state of religion in today’s world makes this very clear. In our religious work, we must support religious circles in promoting the positive factors in religion, curbing the negative factors, guiding religion to adapt to the requirements of the times, and contributing to social development.

王作安：马克思主义宗教观认为，宗教的社会作用具有两重性，既有积极的一面，也有消极的一面，并受到国内外复杂因素的影响。积极的一面，是指宗教具有维护社会稳定、促进社会和谐的作用；消极的一面，指宗教又可能被利用来破坏社会的稳定与和谐。从根本上讲，宗教都是主张和平、和好、和谐的，引导好、运用好、发挥好这一点，宗教就会释放正能量，对社会起到正面作用。但受到各种复杂因素影响，宗教又可能成为动荡、对立的诱因。观察当今世界的宗教状况，这一点看得很清楚。我们做宗教工作，就是要支持宗教界发扬宗教中的积极因素，抑制宗教中的消极因素，引导宗教适应时代进步要求，为社会发展作出贡献。

Reporter: This is also what is commonly referred to as releasing “positive energy,” isn’t it? Now, many people believe in religion. How should we view these broad masses of religious believers?

记者：这也是现在通常所说的发挥“正能量”吧。现在有很多群众信教，我们如何看待这广大的信教群众？

Wang Zuo’an: Behind the halo of religion, what we see are large numbers of religious believers. For a Marxist political party, how to treat religion is actually a question of how to treat religious believers. In our undertakings of revolution, construction, and reform, we need to unite and rely on the masses; without the support of the masses, nothing can be accomplished. The masses referred to here include both religious believers and non-believers.

王作安：宗教光环的背后，我们看到的是大批信教群众。对于马克思主义政党来讲，如何对待宗教，实际上就是如何对待信教群众的问题。我们从事革命、建设和改革的事业，需要团结群众和依靠群众，没有群众的支持将一事无成。这里讲的群众，既包括信教的群众，也包括不信教的群众。

How to view religious believers should be considered on two levels.

如何看待信教群众，要从两个层面上来看。

On the ideological level. For a Marxist political party, we need to help the broad masses of the people establish a correct worldview and scientifically understand life, death, good fortune, and misfortune through ideological and political work and the popularization of scientific and cultural knowledge. However, it must be recognized that this process is a long one, requiring sufficient patience and persistent effort. Religion is a long-term phenomenon. If we are impatient for success and try to immediately “liberate” religious believers from the influence of religion, the result will be counterproductive, pushing religious believers into an opposing position. There have already been many lessons in this regard.

从意识形态层面上来看。对于马克思主义政党来说，我们要通过思想政治工作，通过普及科学文化知识，帮助广大人民群众树立正确的世界观，科学看待生老病死、吉凶祸福。但是要看到，这一过程是漫长的，要有足够的耐心，坚持不懈地去做。宗教是一个长期现象，如果我们急于求成，想立即就把信教群众从宗教的影响下“解放”出来，结果会适得其反，把信教群众推到对立面上去，这方面的教训已经很多了。

On the political level. Among the masses, there are both believers and non-believers. If we only unite non-believers and do not unite believers, we artificially split the masses, which will inevitably seriously weaken the Party’s mass base. In fact, whether a person believes in religion does not determine their political attitude or social stance. Although believers and non-believers differ in belief, their fundamental political and economic interests are identical. Both support the Party’s leadership and the socialist system and are positive forces in building socialism with Chinese characteristics. If we arbitrarily exaggerate differences in belief to the point of making them a political dividing line, we will split the masses and harm the cause of the Party and the state.

从政治层面上来看。群众里面有信教的也有不信教的，如果我们只是团结不信教的群众，不团结信教的群众，就人为地把群众分裂了，势必严重削弱党的群众基础。事实上，一个人信教与否，并不决定他的政治态度和社会立场，信教和不信教的群众虽然信仰上有差异，但政治上、经济上的根本利益是一致的，他们都拥护党的领导和社会主义制度，都是建设中国特色社会主义的积极力量。如果任意夸大信仰上的差异，以至于成为政治上的分野，就会分裂人民群众，危害党和国家的事业。

Therefore, religious believers are also members of the masses. How we treat the masses is how we should treat them; there must be no discrimination, no prejudice. At the same time, attention must be paid to respecting their beliefs and carrying out ideological work in a targeted manner.

因此，信教群众也是群众，我们怎么对待群众，就应该怎么对待他们，不能有歧视，不能有偏见。同时，要注意尊重他们的信仰，有针对性地做好思想工作。

Reporter: Freedom of religious belief is a fundamental right granted to citizens by the Constitution and is also the Party’s basic policy toward religion. So why implement a policy of freedom of religious belief?

记者：宗教信仰自由，是宪法赋予公民的一项基本权利，也是党对待宗教的基本政策。那么为什么要实行宗教信仰自由政策？

Wang Zuo’an: There are three main reasons: first, respecting the laws of development—religion will exist for a long time and will not change according to one’s will; it cannot be resolved through dictatorial means or administrative orders. Second, respecting the masses—to unite religious believers, their beliefs must be respected. Third, respecting human rights—freedom of religious belief is a fundamental right of citizens; it must not only be respected but also protected. The main content of the policy of freedom of religious belief can be summarized as “three adherences.”

王作安：主要有三条理由：一是尊重规律，宗教会长期存在，不会依照你的意志而改变，不能用专政的手段或行政命令的办法解决；二是尊重群众，要团结信教群众，必须尊重他们的信仰；三是尊重人权，宗教信仰自由是公民的基本权利，不仅要尊重，还要保护。宗教信仰自由政策的主要内容，我概括为“三个坚持”。

The first is adhering to the principle that both believers and non-believers have freedom. Citizens can independently choose to believe or not to believe, and no organization or individual may interfere. The policy of freedom of religious belief cannot be simply understood as a policy to protect religion, but rather as a policy to protect citizens’ right to freely choose in matters of religious belief.

一是坚持信教和不信教都有自由。公民可以自主选择信教或者不信教，任何组织和个人都不得干涉。不能把宗教信仰自由政策简单理解为保护宗教的政策，而是保护公民在宗教信仰上自由选择权利的政策。

The second is adhering to the separation of religion from politics. Separation of religion from politics means the separation of state power from religious organizations; this is an important prerequisite for realizing freedom of religious belief. The state protects normal religious activities, manages religious affairs according to law, and does not interfere in the internal affairs of religious groups; religion must carry out activities within the scope permitted by national law and must not interfere in the implementation of state functions such as administration, justice, and education; the state treats all religions equally and cannot use state power to suppress or support any particular religion; religious figures participate in national political life through legal channels.

二是坚持政教分离。政教分离就是国家政权与宗教组织相分离，这是实现宗教信仰自由的重要前提。国家保护正常的宗教活动，依法管理宗教事务，不干涉宗教团体的内部事务；宗教必须在国家法律允许的范围内开展活动，不得干涉行政、司法、教育等国家职能的实施；国家对待各个宗教一律平等，不能利用国家政权压制或者扶持某种宗教；宗教界人士通过合法渠道参与国家政治生活。

The third is adhering to the unity of rights and obligations. While citizens enjoy the right to freedom of religious belief, they must also fulfill the obligations stipulated by law; they must be both good believers and good citizens. Freedom of religious belief has bottom lines: first, legal provisions—our country is a secular state, not a religious state; the relationship between national law and religious law must be properly handled, the dignity of national law must be upheld, and religious law cannot be placed above national law. Second, the rights of others—one cannot interfere with others’ freedom or infringe upon their rights. Third, public order and good customs—one must consciously maintain social order and respect cultural traditions and social ethics and morality.

三是坚持权利和义务的统一。公民在享有宗教信仰自由权利的同时，必须履行法律规定的义务，既要做好教徒，也要当好公民。宗教信仰自由有底线：首先是法律规定，我国是世俗国家，不是宗教国家，要把握好国法与教法的关系，维护国家法律尊严，不能把教法置于国法之上；其次是他人权利，不能干涉别人的自由，侵犯他人的权利；再次是公序良俗，自觉维护社会秩序，尊重文化传统和社会伦理道德。

The starting point and ultimate goal of implementing the policy of freedom of religious belief is to unite believers and non-believers to work together for the cause of socialist modernization.

贯彻宗教信仰自由政策的出发点和落脚点，就是要使信教和不信教的群众联合起来，共同致力于社会主义现代化建设事业。

Reporter: Religious issues are quite complex, and religious work is very important. This involves managing religious affairs according to law. Please share your thoughts on this aspect.

记者：宗教问题相当复杂，宗教工作又十分重要，这就牵涉到依法管理宗教事务的问题，请您谈谈这方面的考虑。

Wang Zuo’an: Religious belief is a matter of ideological understanding, but religious activities involve national interests and public interests. Managing religious affairs according to law means managing religious affairs that involve national interests and public interests according to law.

王作安：宗教信仰是思想认识问题，但宗教活动会涉及国家利益和公共利益。依法管理宗教事务，就是依法管理涉及国家利益和公共利益的宗教事务。

First, bring it into the legal framework. The most important experience in religious work is to respect the laws of development and act according to law, not to manage arbitrarily as one pleases. Since reform and opening up, the most profound change in religious work has been the shift from mainly handling matters according to policy to managing according to law. Using the rule of law to handle religious issues, standardizing the management of religious affairs, and advancing law-based administration—this is the general direction.

一要纳入法制。宗教工作最重要的经验，就是要尊重规律，依法办事，不能想怎么管就怎么管。改革开放以来，宗教工作最深刻的变化，就是由主要依政策办事向依法管理转变。用法治的方式处理宗教问题，规范宗教事务管理，推进依法行政，这是大方向。

Second, establish regulations. Specific rules should be improved based on the Regulations on Religious Affairs [2]2 The Regulations on Religious Affairs are administrative regulations issued by the State Council of the People’s Republic of China, first promulgated in 2004 and revised in 2017, governing the registration, management, and activities of religious groups, venues, and personnel.. For example, the registration and management system for religious groups, the establishment and registration of venues for religious activities, financial supervision and democratic management systems, the recognition and filing of religious clergy, and management measures for religious activities such as pilgrimage. We are working toward this and must persist unremittingly.

二要建立规范。要根据《宗教事务条例》，完善各项具体规定。如宗教团体的登记管理制度、宗教活动场所的设立登记、财务监管和民主管理制度、宗教教职人员的认定和备案、宗教活动如朝觐的管理办法等。我们正在朝这方面努力，要坚持不懈地做下去。

Third, solve difficult problems. There are still many difficulties in the management of religious affairs. Effective methods must be explored to protect the lawful, stop the illegal, combat crime, resist infiltration, maintain normal order in the religious sphere, and win over religious believers who have been misled by forces at home and abroad, enabling them to lead normal religious lives.

三要破解难题。宗教事务管理中还面临许多难题，要探索管用办法，保护合法、制止非法、打击犯罪、抵御渗透，维护宗教领域正常秩序，把受到境内外势力蛊惑的信教群众团结过来，过上正常的宗教生活。

Fourth, provide services. The management of religious affairs should be combined with serving religious circles; management should be embedded in service, and service should reflect management. Management must be “reasonable and well-founded,” and service must be “affectionate and meaningful.” For example, help should be given to improve infrastructure at venues for religious activities, achieving full coverage of water, electricity, heating, roads, communications, and other infrastructure, gradually improving the infrastructure and living conditions of these venues. For another example, the inclusion of religious clergy in the social security system should be accelerated, so that religious clergy have access to medical care when ill and support in old age, sharing in the fruits of reform and development.

四要提供服务。要把管理宗教事务同服务宗教界结合起来，寓管理于服务之中，在服务中体现管理，管理要“有理、有据”，服务要“有情、有意”。比如，要帮助宗教活动场所改善基础设施，实现水、电、暖、道路、通讯等基础设施建设的全覆盖，逐步改善宗教活动场所的基础设施和各项生活条件。再比如，要加快推进宗教教职人员纳入社保工作，使宗教教职人员病有所医、老有所养，共享改革发展成果。

I must also particularly emphasize the issue of protecting the legitimate rights and interests of religious circles. The demolition of religious properties must be carried out according to law, fully considering the need to facilitate believers’ religious activities, and preventing infringement on the legitimate rights and interests of religious circles. The interests of religion and all sectors of society must be coordinated, preventing phenomena such as temples being “commercially operated,” “contracted out,” or “listed on the stock market,” and resolutely correcting infringements such as forced apportionment, forced exactions, forced donations, and forced enclosure.

我还要特别强调维护宗教界合法权益问题。拆迁宗教房产要依法进行，充分考虑便利信教群众过宗教生活的需要，防止侵害宗教界合法权益。要协调宗教与社会各方面的利益关系，防止出现寺庙“被经营”、“被承包”、“被上市”等现象，坚决纠正强摊、强索、强捐、强圈等侵权行为。

Online editor: Keqing

网编：客卿